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So, because it's 2am and I'm about 10,000 words behind on my NaNoWriMo fic, I've decided to further procrastinate by starting a discussion about Episode 208, based on the trailer!

Okay, I don't have a link to just the 208 trailer, so if anyone has one (like, the one from the end of the episode), it would be greatly appreciated.

My particular dissection/analysis/prediction/rambling of the trailer for Episode 208:

So, before we begin the trailer, I wanted to analyze who 'Morgause' is in the legends. She is often named as either Arthur's half-sister, or Morgana (in the form of Morgan Le Fay). Or, she is named as Igraine's sister (in which case, she is also usually named as Morgana's aunt). Now, in the trailer, she's somewhat young and could possibly be their sibling. but we've seen how little that can actually matter (especially when magic is involved). However, she know Arthur's mother, somehow, so I'd guess a friend, and possibly she is Arthur's aunt in this particular case. Somehow, she is very closely related to the family, one way or another. Maybe not by blood - Morgana is Arthur's sister by honor in this TV version of Arthurian legend, and Morgause being a close friend of Igraine's or her sister would certainly be a justifiable reason behind her knowing about Arthur's birth.

The other main thing to know about Morgause is that she is actually the original mother of the character Mordred. In fact, it is only when her character is ever combined with Morgan Le Fay's that Morgana becomes Mordred's mother. We already know that Morgana, while close to Mordred and having already taken on a nurturing role in relation to the boy, is not actually his mother. Do I think Morgause will turn out to be Mordred's mother in this series? Not likely. But, between this reference and the scene in the trailer with her standing at the altar of candles and the crystals, she is deeply involved with magic, somehow.

I'm hoping out that Morgause's character will be a remedy for the show's latest stream of feminism fails from 205 and 206, as Morgause is in chainmail and armor in the first scene we really see her, and she kills a guard using a sword, and it seems to hint at her going up against a knight in the arena, either in a tourney or as a challenge of some kind. As a side note, she is frequently also named as Morgan Le Fay's sister, so perhaps this common bond of feminism between the two will serve in its place.

The next episode will likely be very largely Arthur centric - or at the very least, we will see a dramatic development in Arthur's character. He's going to learn something about his mother, and he's going to go up against his father. On the note of his mother, we can see his loneliness concerning her, as he clearly wants to know all he can about her, and yet has likely run into a midieval equivalent of a firewall concerning her in his life so far. In that sense, he is like any other 'little boy' who just wants to be with his mummy. Flip side, something makes him go up against Uther and attempt to actually fight and/or kill the man. For the obvious reasons, we all suspect this is due to Arthur finding out about the circumstance of his birth. But, be careful - we've been duped before. :D (Though, yes, I admit I will firmly believe Arthur's going to find out about his birth, until I see something otherwise). And even if not, if what he finds out is going to make him go up against Uther, then it has to be BIG.

And, yay for Sir Leon! ^_^ Merlin's concern for Arthur is great, and I think his magic will get a bit of a development in this, too - the cracked old castle in the back ground seemed strangely familiar to a certain character-changing isle's set...:D His character will hopefully also get some attention as he apparently stops Arthur and Uther from killing each other (or at least trying to).

Now comes the hard part - waiting and seeing. :|

Thoughts? And, if any of you have any other (spoiler) material on the episode - interviews, photos, screen caps, sneak previews, ect. - feel free to post! (Though, do remember to include a spoiler warning in the subject line for it!)

ETA
: Found two caches of promo pictures of the episode (which is apparently being called The Sins of the Father). I'd go into speculation, but like I said, it's 2am, and I'm going to be doing so much homework and NaNoWriMo writing tomorrow, so frankly, I NEED SLEEP. If I don't get swallowed up by the work the earth, I'll come back to speculate on them.

http://lhwo.hostrator.com/merlin/season2/promo/2008/promo1.htm (actual promo pics)

http://lhwo.hostrator.com/merlin/season2/promo/2014/promo2.htm (some behind-the-scenes stuff)

Date: 2009-11-08 11:23 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] saint4u.livejournal.com
After reading what you wrote I am hoping that indeed Arthur gets some kind of development in terms of how he views magic and, if he does indeed find out the truth about his birth and how Uther and Gaius hid it from him after all this time, how he feels about having a father who has hidden the true reason his mother died away from him all this time. I agree that it has to be something major for Arthur, once a loyal son who served his father for the most part without question, suddenly calls him a hypocrite and attacks him with a sword. So the best best for cause of such a reaction would be to learn he is of magical birth and in so being is something his father has told him to hate and loathe and kill his entire life. The son has become a part of something his father has hated and despised and told him to think of alike since birth.

As for how Merlin figures into this I think the key factor in the trailer is that he seems very reluctant to go on this mission with Arthur and indeed nervous when they appear on the isle of the blessed to meet up with Morgause and the scene of where Merlin had suddenly realised the full state of his power and what he could do when pushed. I understand what this story will mean for Arthur, but I am equally curious as to what Morgause wants with Merlin and what she wants Merlin to get out of this as well, being as they are both magical and she must know on some level what happened on the isle of the blessed and why Merlin would be so nervous to go back there with Arthur.

Date: 2009-11-08 06:18 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] farmgirl62.livejournal.com
Interesting point about it being the Isle of the Blessed and Merlin's reluctance. I'd like it if Morgause knows about Merlin.

I'm guessing:
- Morgause is the Aunt
- Arthur speaks with his dead mum and gets the whole backstory
- Arthur attacks Uther because he has killed so many when he is guilty himself - and now Arthur realizes HE (Arthur) has innocent blood on his hands
- Perhaps, just perhaps, Morgause is pro-Arthur and "leaves" Arthur in Merlin's hand to protect him (hence she keeps Merlin's secret). I'd like that.

I don't expect a Mordred connection, nor, unfortunately, a Morgana connection.



Date: 2009-11-08 08:29 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] nyxelestia.livejournal.com
Hm, seance? There is a scene with Arthur and Merlin there in which Morgause is surrounded by all the candles and whatnot. I'm not entirely sure if it's actually the Isle of the Blessed or just a similar place, but creepy old castles do seem to be focuses of magic in these cases, so who knows...

Also, something on Arthur: it might also be conflicting for him because he hates magic. Even if he is slowly learning to view it in a new light, right now, he is against magic - and this could result in a bit of self-hatred if he learns that he is born of magic.

I'm actually not sure where Morgause is going to stand on this issue - in some cases of original legend, she's pro-Arthur, but other cases, she's against him. (In these cases, though, it's also usually Morgana who's actively against Arthur - we don't know where she is, yet, so this entirely up in the air. It would be nice, though - first "other" sorcerer that wasn't hellbent on killing everyone...)

Date: 2009-11-09 03:09 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] tigger-01.livejournal.com
I pretty much agree with everything you just wrote.
I think this will be one of the biggest character development moments for Arthur, on so many different levels... on a magic level (as someone mentioned - being what he has been taught to despise), and on an emotional level as well. After all, he is "responsible", in some sense, for the death of his mother - he's always known that his father misses her very much and sees his mother in him... but perhaps now he'll realise why it's always felt like his father has put so much pressure and "blamed" him.

I have a feeling Morgause will be Arthur's aunt - she doesn't look VERY young, and she does have Arthur's blonde hair. (tenuous link, I know. :D)

Date: 2009-11-09 04:29 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] nyxelestia.livejournal.com
I like your version, actually, of why Morgause would be Arthur's aunt.

Morgause is hott.
Arthur his hott.

QED

:D

Date: 2009-11-09 04:35 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] tigger-01.livejournal.com
LOLOL. Exactly! Arthur is hot - his dad... not so much so, so he had to have gotten it from somewhere, right? :D
(Also - have you seen the promo pics for this episode? I have another theory but I don't want to spoil you.)

Date: 2009-11-09 06:52 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] nyxelestia.livejournal.com
Go ahead, spoil me - and, I've seen the promo pics. Or most of them, anyway (so feel free to link me).

Date: 2009-11-09 04:44 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] zahrawithaz.livejournal.com
I like your write-up. I am really hoping that Arthur trying to kill Uther at the end will be a real emotional outburst, but I'm really afraid that it will just be Arthur under a spell AGAIN, and that once again a woman will be the fall guy for the father/son trauma.

I am also worried that Morgause will turn out to be evil, as most recent versions of the legend make her a villain (often the Big Bad), and it would be fully consistent with the genderfail on the show.

Date: 2009-11-09 06:56 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] nyxelestia.livejournal.com
Mm, I feel the need to point out that the show as a whole is reverting back towards the older versions of the legends - Merlin being Arthur's age or younger, Geoffrey, and Morgana being less of a villain.

I'm not saying she won't, I'm just saying that it's not definitive.

I don't think the writers will be so quick to make the outburst happen under a spell, though - I don't think they would throw away such a great character development like that.

Date: 2009-11-09 10:49 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] foxie-trot.livejournal.com
I like your speculation, but I'm honestly trying to avoid thinking what the writers will do next. It'll be like with the Arthur/Gwen kiss (thinking it would be later in the series, Morgana would predict it first, etc) and I'll be disappointed that it's different to how I want it to be. Or I'll just give myself a headache with my brain going overtime to try and understand what the hell the writers are doing.

BUT I didn't know who 'Morgause' was at all, so I'm really glad to learn this. VERY interesting indeed. Makes me want to see the episode even more, because I can't wait to see what they do with it. I'm kind of hoping for a family connection, because that would be brilliant. And a magical one too, because then we would have Arthur potentially protecting magic and attacking his father - something he definitely hasn't done before!!

Date: 2009-11-10 08:36 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] nyxelestia.livejournal.com
Hm, speculation's got two sides to it, I guess. Or six. Or a dozen...it can be so much fun, especially when you turn out right, but if you're wrong...yeah...

And yeah, the Morgause thing is a little obscure. It's only because I've been reading a lot of references (re: Wikipedia) on Arthurian legend recently that I remembered the name when she said it in the trailer.

Date: 2009-11-11 03:57 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] foxie-trot.livejournal.com
Usually when I speculate, I try to have about fifty different things going at once. LOL because then you are either going to be glad you were right, but extremely impressed if the writers come up with something that you didn't.

Oh ok, I see. Well lucky one of us has been paying attention to the legend! XD

Date: 2009-11-11 06:20 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] nyxelestia.livejournal.com
There are a bunch of different stuff concerning the legends and how the show compares to them. I know there's an essay someone posted which pointed out that the show's writers, contrary to public opinion, actually pay very close attention to the legends - they just picked the more obscure versions. ^_^

Date: 2009-11-12 08:42 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] foxie-trot.livejournal.com
Yea, I remember reading that essay and was so glad that someone wrote it, because I do agree. It's not like they could actually getting away with not knowing about the legend, if they want to mess with it so badly.

Date: 2009-11-09 02:24 pm (UTC)
tjammy2nd: (MA boys)
From: [personal profile] tjammy2nd
When I saw the original preview for this episode at the end of 2x01 it seemed to me like Uther and Arthut fighting to the death was caused by a spell. That doesn't seem to make sense anymore, but it felt obvious to me back then.

Date: 2009-11-10 08:37 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] nyxelestia.livejournal.com
Mm...problem with trailers in terms of one-scene relating to another is that thanks to editing, they can show something completely different from what's going to happen and still call legitimacy. The scenes all make more sense if you consider them all disconnected than together, in the trailers...damn advertising departments...^_^

Date: 2009-11-09 07:35 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] byatt-lover.livejournal.com
Spoiler Comment:
In an interview on making this series, a few of the actors (I think maybe Bradley) and writer talked about how Arthur finds out about his birth. So I think it's highly likely that Arthur knows magic brought him into the world, hence why he thinks his father is a hypocrite in his war against magic.

I don't know if they'll make Morgause a relation. Uther didn't seem to know who she was, since if she was Ingraine's relation then of course Morgause would know everything and in the preview Uther only fears that Morgause knows things. And he doesn't seem to know why Morgause would know things.

This version of the legend has really changed this around, because in some legends Nimueh is the Lady of the Lake and well she's a bit fried at the moment....SPOILER...but I do believe she's coming back in an episode later on (whether it's a flashback I don't know)

I'm really excited for this episode though, since it looks like a great one for Arthur. I feel that all the "kids" are orphans and Arthur has a chance to see his mom for the first time...which will probably make me cry.

I do wonder though what Morgause's motive is though for coming after 21 years to tell Arthur of his birth. Why now?

Date: 2009-11-10 08:43 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] nyxelestia.livejournal.com
OOH, I really hope this is where Arthur finds out!

As for the Morgause thing - I'm actually wondering right now if Tristan, Igraine's brother, knew about the magic. I suppose he knew something, if he blamed Uther for Igraine's death, but still...then again, it kinda brings up the question of how much anyone besides Uther and Nimueh knew. And even if we knew Igraine had known, we can't be sure she would tell all, or any, of her family.

Actually, Lady of the Lake stuff came later, I think, mostly with the Vulgate cycle. I don't think they'll bring it up that much, in this one - especially as the Lady of the Lake is usually said to have raised Lancelot, somehow. Then again, Lancelot's parents died when he was young and we don't actually know what happened in between...:D

Date: 2009-11-10 02:46 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] byatt-lover.livejournal.com
I made the comment about the Lady of the Lake because someone confirmed that she was actually going to be in an episode this season. Which I think is exciting. But there sources could be wrong, since they also suggested that she would be a love interest for Merlin...hmm.

About Tristan...I've always wondered why Arthur never asked any questions then. Did he not know Tristan was his uncle? Did he not wonder why Tristan wanted to kill Uther for the death of his mother? In that instance, I really felt like Arthur knew absolutely nothing about his mother or his life or anything family related things at all. Which might be why he freaks out in this episode and is determined to have some questions/answers for a change.

Maybe Tristan had a daughter named Morgause in this series, so maybe she's a cousin.

And Gaius knows about Arthur and Nimueh and Uther. But I feel like anyone else who knew about Arthur's birth was put to death. I wouldn't put that past Uther.

Date: 2009-11-10 04:27 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] byatt-lover.livejournal.com
oh, just to add on....The Lady of the Lake is the title of episode 9.

Date: 2009-11-11 12:03 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] nyxelestia.livejournal.com
Really? Hm, that certainly puts a new spin on things...

Nimueh is the name of the Lady of the Lake...I wonder if maybe her ghost or something is the Lady? Or maybe she never died, or came back, or...

GAH.

Date: 2009-11-11 02:57 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] byatt-lover.livejournal.com
i think perhaps they're making Freya, the woman Merlin rescues, the Lady of the Lake. Because I think she's suppose to be a love interest to Merlin.

Date: 2009-11-11 06:19 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] nyxelestia.livejournal.com
*shakes head*

The thing is that Nimueh is one of the actual names for the Lady of the Lake, and Freya never was. (To which end, the Lady of the Lake is also more of a spirit than sorcerer, and Freya looks very alive in the promo pics, to me).

Though on that note, I'm looking for any information on that episode that I can, so it seems you have some...? Because her name being Freya is actually quite new to me...

Date: 2009-11-11 03:32 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] byatt-lover.livejournal.com
oooh. the bbc updates the episode synopsis on their press release site every once in a while.
this is what is says for episode 9:

title: the lady of the lake


"When Merlin discovers the beautiful druid girl Freya trapped in a bounty hunter's cage, he knows he must help her escape, as the magical family drama continues. Gaius warns against getting involved but Merlin refuses to listen.

Merlin harbours Freya in the tunnels beneath Camelot. But with the bounty hunter searching for his missing prize and a ferocious magical beast on the loose, she can't stay hidden long. Merlin's intense new friendship is tested to the limit and he is forced to make some heartbreaking decisions as he battles to keep Freya safe.

Colin Morgan stars as Merlin; Laura Donnelly is Freya; and Richard Wilson plays Gaius"-BBC press

Date: 2009-11-11 03:34 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] byatt-lover.livejournal.com
the BBC Press also has episodes 10 and 11 synopsis up....but I won't put them all in here since we're only meant to be talking about episode 8 and somehow I already managed to go into episode 9...SORRY!

Date: 2009-11-11 06:04 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] nyxelestia.livejournal.com
Nah, nah - feel free to put them all up! I'm rarely one for being a stickler as to where the discussions go. We already have a few set theories on Ep. 8, so let's expand on it! ^_^

Date: 2009-11-11 06:43 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] byatt-lover.livejournal.com
YAY!
Since you don't mind:

EPISODE 10
Dignitaries from rival kingdoms descend on Camelot for peace talks, but what King Alined really wants is war, as the magical family drama continues. He'll do everything in his power to stir up hostilities, even if it means using magic.

Alined's jester, Trickler, puts a spell on Arthur to make him fall madly in love with rival King Olaf's beloved daughter, Vivian. Chaos reigns in the palace and Camelot is once more poised on the brink of war. Can Merlin free Arthur's heart before the prince loses his head in battle?

David Schofield is Alined; Kevin Eldon is Trickler; Mark Lewis Jones is King Olaf; Bradley James is Arthur; Georgia Moffett is Vivian; and Colin Morgan is Merlin.

-BBC press release


EPISODE 11
The ruthless warlock Alvarr is determined to destroy Camelot and allow magic to reign again, as the magical family drama continues. To fight Uther, however, Alvarr must reclaim the Crystal of Neahtid – a precious magical relic of the Old Religion. Few can harness its power, but Alvarr believes Mordred can use it to further their cause.

The crystal is safely locked up in Uther's vaults and many have lost their lives trying to reclaim it. Alvarr, though, has a secret weapon – Morgana's powerful bond with the druid boy. Morgana has always protected Mordred but will she go as far as turning into a thief and traitor to help him and the charismatic Alvarr?

Merlin is shocked by her choice and by the true power of the mysterious crystal.

Alvarr is played by Joseph Mawle, Uther by Anthony Head, Mordred by Asa Butterfield, Morgana by Katie McGrath and Merlin by Colin Morgan.


BBC press release

Date: 2009-11-11 07:21 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] nyxelestia.livejournal.com
For Ep. 10, I'll admit, I kinda went, "Oh, great, another love-spell episode."

Ep. 11, though = @_@

Hm, do you have the official summary thing for Ep. 8? I wonder if that could be another clue...

Date: 2009-11-11 08:33 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] byatt-lover.livejournal.com
no clues, it's very vague although the secret can "bring the downfall of the kingdom" :

When a mysterious warrior challenges Arthur to a duel, nobody could possibly predict the devastating chain of events that is set in motion – least of all the young Prince himself – as the magical family drama continues.

Arthur and Merlin soon find themselves on a strange quest at the behest of the beautiful Morgause. Through her, Arthur discovers a dark secret which could bring about the downfall of the kingdom...

Bradley James plays Arthur, Colin Morgan plays Merlin and Emilia Fox guest stars as Morgause.

Date: 2009-11-11 08:53 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] byatt-lover.livejournal.com
also meant to add:

In episode 10 they're making Gwen the servant to Vivian...the woman Arthur is suppose to fall in love with....which I think would make it interesting.

Youtube also has some clips of Bradley/Arthur fighting in a scene. It's basically the rehearsal shots and then the filming. You can tell Bradley likes to play with the sword though. LOL.

Date: 2009-11-12 01:33 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] nyxelestia.livejournal.com
*lmao* And dude, I'm almost completely convinced Arthur's going to find out about his birth, now...

Date: 2009-11-12 02:02 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] byatt-lover.livejournal.com
I think it's a guarantee that he will....cause I mean...you do know that Arthur is going to see his mom, right?? Like she literally comes back from the dead and they have a chat. LOL

Date: 2009-11-13 05:18 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] byatt-lover.livejournal.com
OMG:
HUGE HUGE SPOILERS!!!!!!!!!!
(you have to highlight it because i wasn't sure if anyone else wanted to read an early review on the episode)

After being beaten in single combat, Arthur learns the truth about his mother's death...

An epic episode that contains well-edited swordplay, high drama and dark magic, Sins of the Father is one of the best segments the show has produced, giving everyone bar Gwen at least one strong scene, and moving the show's mythology forward.

As Uther ennobles new knights of Camelot, someone from his murky past is arriving at the court, and as played by Emilia Fox, Morgause is a force to be reckoned with. Students of Arthurian legend will immediately recognise the name, but even without that foreknowledge, it's clear she knows far more about Arthur and Morgana than she should.

Once again Tony Head is given stronger material to work with, and he relishes the opportunity. His relationships with Arthur and Gaius reflects the changes we've seen this season, and the once-all powerful king is starting to look increasingly isolated and alienated from those who should naturally respect and love him.

Some startling hints about Morgana's parentage are hidden within the story and from the brief scenes featuring her, it's clear that this is going to be one of the key subplots for the second half of the season. Paul Simpson

Date: 2009-11-14 07:41 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] nyxelestia.livejournal.com
SQUEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!

♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥

Date: 2009-11-11 06:27 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] dk323.livejournal.com
That's what I think too. I didn't know that would be the title for Episode 9, but if it really is so, then Freya has to be connected to it somehow. Well, I hope at least that she won't die in Episode 9 if she really is meant to be The Lady of the Lake.

And it would be nice for Merlin to have a love interest. :)

Date: 2009-11-11 03:36 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] byatt-lover.livejournal.com
I agree. I would love for Merlin to have a love interest instead of it always being Arthur being enchanted and falling in love.

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